MILITIA: ПОРЯДОК ИЗ ХАОСА - сила тела, машин и действий

"Cила рабочего класса в организации. Без организации массы пролетариата ничто. Организованность
это все. Организация означает единство действий, единство практических выступлений"
(В.И.Ленин, 1907)

New European Order - Новый Европейский порядок. Под таким провокационным заголовкомистория индустриальной культуры в конце 80-х зафиксировала рождение еще одного яркого нетривиального и конфронтационного проекта - бельгийского секстета, носящего имя военизированного американского народного ополчения XVII века MILITIA Organisation.

Давлеющие к "силе через языческую мощь", как слогану и доминирующей концепции единства действий, два полноформатных винилах и прилагавшаяся в бонус 12" Militia, стремительно разошлись среди коллекционеров, до верху изобилуя откровенными хитами Retrospective &

Reveille, Silezia, Pogrom, Stahlkadanz, включая Natura Magica, Lebensborn,Sieghymne, Necronomicon, Radio Europa. Записанная в конце 80-х и представленная публично в период 1993-1995, первая часть триптиха 'Statement', "New European Order" уже в те годы обрисовала эстетические, концептуальные и звуковые возможности творчества Militia, в дальнейшем прогрессировавшие от релиза к релизу. Их звучание варьировалось от sub-orchestral sound глубоко амбиентных монотонных сфер до агрессивного племенного-индустриального перкуссивного и
агонизирующего саунда power-electro. The Man-Mechanoid strives for a new society. Лично мне это
весьма напоминало "Время вперед!" Свиридова - по динамике и агонии преобразований, по
внутреннему характеру и атмосфере советского конструктивизма 20-х, где красота тела как формы, природных инстинктов и совершенства идилического нового тоталитарного мира сплетались воединно. Напоминало и по характерной эмоциональной звуковой окраске, и по идеологическому background'у. Иллюстрирущая шаги Militia тех лет, визуальная документация изображала архивную летопись революционных народных масс, первый лет преобразований и становления Нового мира. " ...Militia does a good job of at least partially filling this void", - писал в ту пору глава американского индустриально-экспериментального лейбла Jason Mantis на страницах издания "Audio Drudge"
(r.i.p.).

"The worker strong and proud. in perfect unity with the machine. strive for a new world. prepare
for battle against god and lord. line up on the field of honour. radio europa macht bekannt: the
hymn of victory. we collect the harvest of what we have sown!" *

Никто со времен бомбандирующих Test Department периода их альбома "Unacceptable Face of Freedom" не отваживался явить нам музыку такой ритмически напористой мощи, силы и штурмовой энергии - симбиоз гипнотических лупов, архаических загадочных экзотических труб и горнов, глубоких атмосфер и механики, подобно легендарным Einsturzende Neubauten используемых для создания впечатляющего cаунда. Не перкуссивные треки здесь базировались на прострационном абиенте, в недрах которого рождались необычный tribal-power industrial и конструкторско-машинный саунд Militia в венах Anenzephalia, Test Dept, Bastard Noise, IDPA и Con-Dom с сэмплированными
медиа-заявлениями политико-исторического характера. Впрочем, с Майком Дандо и его кромешным культурал-террористическим power-noise дандовым адом дружба связывала Militia Organisation давно - еще с первого совместного 7"-сингла "Семейная драма" (где Дандо вершил свой обычный шумовой суд, а Лаура Маэс "скрипела" на струнных инструментах). Рождаемые в этом симбиозе ритмы постепенно крепли, расширялись в палитре звучания и обретали мощь эскалации военизированных атак на слушателя с повествующем на немецком вокалом на грани безумия. Великолепно оформленные,записи Militia представлялись совершенным браком музыки и дизайна.

Эстетика Организации Мilitia базировалась на двух равноправных принципах: klangarbeit и ideology.
"Loge voor ideologische klankarbeid en ambachtelljke muziek industriele ritmes, trance and
workforce. schonheit durch kraft. man and machine in perfect harmony". *

В ручную сделанный деревянный бокс, выдержанный в строгих традициях ритуально-племенной эстетики африканских либо австралийских архаических культур, венчал собой пролог ко второй части трилогии - двойному CD-альбому "Nature Revealed", написанному в 1996 и выражающему идею природных стихий как созидательного базиса для нового cообщества. Korperkunst, Nature and Body are the Ultimate Soundsource.
Работа была реализована в содружестве с бельгийской театральной труппой Diepenbeeck, и
переполненная до краев первобытно ритуальная мощью и tribal-спиритическим звучанием,
традиционно перемешанным с индустриальными перкуссиями, являла образ совершенной модели мира: созидательного мироздания и четырех его вершащих этериальную гармонию главенствующих символов - primordial элементов Aire, Agua, Fuero и Terra (Воздуха, Воды, Огня и Земли). Уже заглавная увертюра introduction, вкратчивым образом открывавшая перед слушателем потаенный, преисполненный первобытных поклонений, архаики, ритуальных таинств эзотеро-магический мир далеких неведомых культур, исчезнувших племен и сакральных цивилизаций, являлась главенствующей и доминирующей на всем протяжении последующего повествования. Ритмы, бонги, обволакивающие, погружающие в ритуальный транс напевы примитивных деревянных инструментов (бамбук?), растущая тропическая и языческая мощь незримых празднеств - все в этой работе служило олицетворением и подобием
Оды природному изяществу и совершенству, гармонии и силе, противостоявшей некогда
современным урбанизированным системам. Оды дереву и металлу, местами значительно напоминавшая восточные ритуальные танцы Buddoh. Звучание росло и усливалось по мере развивавшегося панорамного действа, переходя в военизированную кононаду, холодные стальные механические фрустрации, паровой гулкий бой машин, дыхание прессов и реверберации станков - идеальная поэма индустриального конструктивизма. В представленных композициях "Apiga", "Damiga", "Aki'abo", "Aida'adomda-so", "Natural Revealed" представлял cобой совершенную гармонию между современным технократическим обществом и утилизированным примитивным миром - африканских табла, перкуссий и тамбуринов, но также металл, цимбалы, сэмплированные мелодекламации и электронные увертюры в фрагментарной полифонии и гипнотрансе. И при этом, огромное множество потаенных, странных и раннее не слышанных совершенных звуков, воссозданных неуемным воображением участников Сообщества Militia...

Наконец в прошлом году увидела свет заключительная глава триптиха 'Statement' - "The Black Flag
Hoisted", специальный бокс-сет, включавший dbl.CD, плакат и специально изготовленный флаг с
эмблемой Организации. В предверии новой работы Militia приняла участие в четвертом фестивале
power-industrial Deadly Action, традиционно организуемом французским лейблом Nuit et Bruillard,
выступив на одной сцене с Ex.Order, Slogun, Genocide Organ и Bad Sector. Новая работа
представила взгляд Militia на анархические теории - Die Theorielosigkeit des Anarchismus,
нигилизм и либеральные искания конца XIX века, выраженные в таких исторических фигурах как
русские анархо-теоретики Бакунин и Кропоткин, французский анархист Прудон. Anarchist Movement
for Collective and Direct Action. Длинные перечни организаций и действующих лиц, вдохновлявших
на создание релиза, не менее внушительные перечни музыкантов, тем или иным способом
участвовавших на записях. Bastard Noise, Waste Matrix и Con-Dom среди прочих, при участии
разительных голосовых вокализов Nas Dom-Slomsek Choir. Вступительный речетатив на чешском под воинственный милитаризм ударных, тревожная разряженная атмосфера распростертого электронного background'a, "Both politically and musically heavy, this is simply a brilliantly conceived and
realised work", как писал австралийский Spectrum.

Наконец, после небольшого исторического экскурса, подошла очередь предоставить слово самим
участникам ОРГАНИЗАЦИИ MILITIA, их вглядам и мнениям, которыми музыканты открыто поделились снами в импровизированной дискуссии Achtung Baby!


Igor Vaganov
june/july 2002, Belgium-Russia

* цитаты из декларации Militia Organisation
special thanks to Frank and our friends from Cold Lands for their technical support

Discography:
New European Order 3 LP set ( sold out )
Nature Revealed 2 CD wooden box ( sold out )
Kingdom of Our Lord/ Maschinenzimmer mCD ( sold out )
Pain/Familiedrama 7 inch ( sold out )
The Black Flag Hoisted ( sold out )
compilations: War Against Society (Tactical)/ Ultrason (UNE)

 

 

An interview with MilitiA


Many years ago (in 1995, if exactly) on the pages of legendary american mag "Audio Drudge"
(r.i.p.) I found anounce of the release from Belgium group Militia with absolutelly provacative
titul "New European Order". that announce started with words of ...V.I.Lenin about organisation
as moving strenght of revolution and any direct action. ("...."). well, it was my firstest early
impressions about Militia, quite intrigued and expressive. then year later I discovered
absolutelly total tribal-political NEO itself (thank you, Bob!) and this interest started again...
since that time I dreamed to talk with Militia members about these
links between past and present, about their individual revolution now and there, about sort of
Militia ideology and goals of their 'action direct', about sources of your individual development
and inspiration... and the more I thought about their music the more every time I have found
numerous different historical connections in their musical nature - with some movies
(for example, films of Sergey Eisenstein) or russian konstructivism of 10-20s in their
creation' intellectual and historical background. from tribal-ritual to modern totalitar society
and American mass-cult-political invasion... Finally, many years later, we got this long awaited
contact and possibility for the conversations and curriousity, so let's start to talk about it
faster, hmm, Frank?

Yeah, sure we can. We're a six members band ( not including the sound engineer
nor the people who do the artworks for us ) and we play a combination of electronic and
percussion music: live we use a CDR containing the basic electronic music which plays
in the background ( made with synthesizer, sequencer and sampler ) and live we play a variety
of percussion instruments, mostly self made: empty oil barrels, metal tubes and plates suspended
on chains and standards, wood percussion, a radiator, machines ( concrete mixer), but also some
conventional instruments like bass drums, snare drums, symbals,... and a few
wind instruments like didgeridoo, metal tube, horns, trumpet...

In connection with your past and present albums I found there links to legendary Russian
anarcho-theoretics Bakunin and Kropotkin. can I ask you about your interest to Russia and Russian
revolution movements? what was general idea/concept for the release? why is so actual for you
to talk today about the past, about revolution - today, in the time of total deshumanisation,
mechanical rhythm of daily life, inner destruction of human idividual in Modern Megapolises? can
we talk about it?

FG: i think you've allready made the right conclusions by reading about our works and listening
to them. Indeed, we're using MILITIA as a tool for spreading our eco-anarchic ideas about our
society. They will all be explained in our forthcoming manifesto. We founded MILTIA to be a tool
for the spreading of our eco-environmental views and our social ideas, which are based upon the
anarchic philosophies of the Russian anarchists Bakunin and Kropotkin and the French 'father'
of anarchism Proudhon. We combined certain elements of their social views with our own ideas
regarding environmental problems, so we designed an alternative social form in which people
can live in harmony with their natural environment, based upon anarchic principles. This means
that we distinguish ourselves from the conventional left wing ideas - which believe in a
society lead by a government - and form a strong opposition against the appearance of right wing
ideas that seem to infiltrate the industrial music scene more and more.

All our ideas about such an eco-anarchic society, how it is been constructed, how people can
manage to live in such a society... will be revealed in the forthcoming manifesto. But in short
I can tell you this allready: the social form Militia propose is based upon the instinctive and
natural urge for solidarity and social contact, that is inherent to the human psychology.
We believe in a de-construction of all of the present social structures ( we oppose against
societies being lead by any form of government ) and we propose an alternative social structure
which is being constructed from the basis, where all decisions will be made by the inhabitans of
the community themselves, but always taking in account the considerations that have to be made
in order to reach a balance between the human social and economical/
industrial... live and NATURE ( which is a full partner in this social whole). We do believe in
a well-structured society, but the main difference with the conventional idea of social structure
is that the eco-anarchic social structure is a dynamic one, which remains under constant
surveillance of the people themselves, and which is based upon mutual respect, autonomy,
solidarity and the WILL to take care for one another and for NATURE. It is a borderless society,
without religion ( so an atheistic society ) and a vegatarian one as well, because we respect
all life forms: it is impossible to provide hugh numbers of people with meat without torturing
and abusing the animals involved.

So Militia support eco-action groups and anarchic movements all over the world. We're in contact
with Animal Liberation Front, Gaia, and a few small but not well structured anarchic action
groups in Belgium, Holland and the US, but this is spreading fast. We hope that we can combine
all eco-anarchic forces and potentials through our website, we will definately install a
discussion forum and link ourselves to as much action groups as possible.


So basically were a left wing band, a nice alternative against some right
wing minded bands that operate in the industrial scene, I believe. But we
also deny the need for a society that's been led by any form of government,
and this distinguishes Militia from the conventional left wing policy, where
the believe in a democratic system lead by a higher institution ( the
government ) is accepted to be the only possible social construction.
Militia believe that all decisions rega)...

The strenght of the working class lies in organization (... )" - this quotation by V.I. Lenin was used on the New European Order release. So, can I ask you, where is Militia power concentrated ?

Militia is an industrial percussion group that uses music, film and performance to spread their eco-anarchic views upon modern society. This theme is written down in three parts, forming the Militia Statement Trilogy: at first there is "New European Order" ( 3 LP box ), which is a documentary of our present society, revealing the fundamental and histrorical basis on which it is build and pointing to the desctructive elements which are inherent to the political structure of the society we live in, followed by "Nature Revealed" ( 2 Cd box ), a study of the natural elements and natural order needed to construct a new society, and then there is "The Black Flag Hoisted",( 2 CD package ) that is the conclusive blueprint for the alternative society, build upon natural and anarchic elements and thus resulting into the eco-anarchic society we stand for.

Can you tell a few words about early/first years of Militia: what was the beginning ? What was the reason of your interest in electro/industrial music, for start ? Who and what influenced you at that time ( persons, events, artifacts) ?


Militia was founded in 1985 when I met Jo Billen ( electronics, trumpet and hobo player ) at a concert organised by Club Moral in the cellars of a former and abandonned factory in Antwerp which they used for living and performing. Club Moral is a project of Danny De Vos and Annemie Van Kerkhoven, both avant-garde artists, who amongst other activities distributed industrial music and formed a power electronics band.
At that time I was looking for collaborators for a new project I had in mind, namely forming a group of people and spread - through music and films - my eco-anarchic ideas.The bases of my political ideas were formed during my membership of an extreme left wing organization called AMADA ( Alle Macht Aan De Arbeiders - All Power To The Workers ), but my ideas had evolved into a more eco-anarchic based social philosophy over the years.
Jo and I recorded the first MILITIA music ( a tape called "The Face Of God" informing about our anarchic/atheistic social views, which would later become the foundation of "New European Order"), and we did one perfomance, resulting in a live tape. None of the tapes were ever released.
Shortly after and during another event at the factory in Antwerp, I met Mike Dando, aka Con-Dom who was performing there. He listened to my tapes and suggested I should send them to Praxis Dr. Bearmann, a new-coming German label he had worked for. They immediately agreed to release the first real MILITIA project called "New European Order". Since then we've released all our works with the same people. They changed the label's name into Tactical Recordings some years ago.
So, if you like to know the primary influences: well, it would be the political climat of those days and the image of an alternative being an eco-anarchic society. Since then Jo Billen has left the band and 5 more people joined in.

Sometimes your music is linked with Test Department and great industrial epoch of the 80's, and moreover your extraordinary instruments remind of Einsturzende Neubauten. Is there actually any influence of those creative composing ideology upon you and your works ? What artefacts also influenced the sound and image of Militia ?

Well, there are three reasons why we use scrap material for making music: first of all we like the sound and the physical presence of empty oil barrels and hughe metal plates suspended on chains...
Another thing is that in the beginning we didn't have the money to buy conventional percussion instruments, so we had no other option than to use all we could find that was usefull to construct percussion instruments with. And third reason is that the instruments fit very well in the political statements we spread: the oil barrels were at first used to contain the products of a capitalist and polluting society ( for instance, we use oil barrels carrying the labels of British Petroleum, Shell and so on ) and now they are the instruments for eco-anarchic propaganda, simply great !
It is also fair to say that the specific nature of the instruments we have constructed over the years ( it's quite a collection now ! ) in fact lead the music I compose in a specific direction and thus resulting into the quite unique sound scapes that can only be created using scrap material.

Often you use various historical politically-ideological samples ( I noticed even a fragment of a German radio programm about Russian hermitage on "NEO" ). and also a big amount of handmade unique instruments. What is their place in your creating process ? Could you say more about your handmade instruments - is it an analogue of instruments used in ancient times or do you construct them individually basing upon own sound search ?

About the samples: they are used for better placing the whole of the statement into a historical perspective: to create a moment in time in which the statement involved can be placed because it tells us more about that particular moment of time, a time framework if you like.
Especially in "New European Order" we had to use such historical samples because that album tells about the historical foundations of our present society.
About the handmade instruments: for "Nature Revealed" we made several percussion and wind instruments with the help of two professors at the Middle Africa Museum and the Gallo-Roman Museum, both in Belgium. This recording tells you about the natural environment and the natural forces that are needed to create an eco-anarchic society. This society is being based upon the element of natural dynamism and the need for human adaption to this force. So we in a way made a dedication to the 4 major natural forces ( Air, Earth, Fire and Water ) and and all the living beings in it, men, animals and plant life. It was a search for symbiosis, men and nature living together in harmony.
In order to create the best possible soundscapes for this record, we had to create sound instruments using the instrument building methods of primitive and ancient ( prehistorical ) tribes and the material they used: bones, skin, wood, clay... and other things we could use to regenerate sound with: sand, stones, water...In fact you can say that the instruments we use were always designed and build in order to create the best sound possible for the project involved. For the recordings and the live performance of "The Black Flag Hoisted" we also use a concrete mixer and an electric metal saw, not only for the sound, but primary because these instruments help us to give form to our ideas.
Now there is also an element of survey and experimenting: more than once the band members bring in new sound material like the cilinder of a washing machine or a small electric motor or a big metal plate, to try out and see if it fits in the music..I say, it's quite a collection now.

How was the idea of your Trilogy born and what are it's aims ?

It represents an alternative for our society in decay: it offers a new view upon the relationship between men and nature. The new society Militia propose is one build upon mutual respect and the WILL to care.
Before one can start living like that, the present society has to be totally de-constructed. Only then a new society can be constructed, starting from the instinctive need of men to live together and with Nature being a full partner. This means that all the steps needed for constructing a new society can be taken only when they don't conflict with Nature nor with the basic Human Rights.
Such a community demands a solid social structure. Militia have written a handy book about the social elements and natural forces needed to construct this type of community. The book will include a live CD and will be released soon now. We're also constructing an internet website which will contain a discussion forum people can use to confront their ideas regarding our society with the eco-anarchic social views proposed by Militia. The full text of the Eco-Anarchic Manifesto will also be available on our website.

Your music is very expressive, contradictive and cinematic. Can I ask if you had(ve) any work in cimema and can you in detail tell me about Militia's work with the Belgian Diepenbeek Theatre ?


Well, we just want to express our opinions regarding our society and spread our eco-anarchic views and perhaps the reason why our music seems to be so expressive is that we express ourselves in the clearest way possible to inform the people of who we are and what we think.
In order to give additional feedback to the audience and to make sure that they all know what we're talking about, we project a film during the whole of our live performance. In this film we show a compilation of historical documentary ( and other ) images and fragments that deal with the contence of our music and message. The music is written using these images as a source of inspriartion and composite construction.
In Diepenbeek we performed "Nature Revealed" using a background film containing natural landscapes, animals, sea life, dancing African tribes and so on. The Militia members were all body-painted with a sort of liquid white clay and toatoo-like black figures over their skin, made with coal, just like was done in an African tribe. The project was financially supported by the local government - not bad knowing that we are eco-anarchists ! I guess they did so because they thought our ideas sounded positive and our intentions were good. It was a great success and one great performance. We did this gig also in the Gallo-Roman Museum in Tongeren and there the artefacts we used for making music were presented in the museum's collection as well.

Could it be that the musical creations of MILITIA are a search for inner harmony or harmony between hi-tech modern society and ancient ritual/tribal social traditions ?

The Militia works definately express a longing for balance and harmony between the human being and his natural habitat. This position also includes the search for harmony between nature and progress. We actually need to find a balance between our need for comfort, mobility and so on and the presence of nature in the whole of it. So we believe that for instance in the field of new discoveries and techniques, we must direct as much attention as possible towards new and clean technologies such as the use of water as a power secource for cars and so on, the development of alternative sources of energy in general, recycling, restauration of the naural landscapes and so on.
In our opinion it might be possible to install a society that doesn't conflict with the natural environment and still can be organised in a modern fashion. Uptill now the capitalist society we live in has done barely nothing to improve the quality of life, because improving our life cannot be achieved without showing a deep respect for nature: as soon as you start jeopardizing our environment, you're jeopardizing human life as well, wheither your behaviour or your actions provide us with more luxury and comfort or not. In the end we'll all be the victims of our own endangering behaviour. We don't say that we all have to return to a primitive tribal way of life, but certainly we can learn a lot from the way people in ancient history dealt with their surroundings. I think modern science can provide us with the practical tools and know-how to improve our life in a clean and healthy biosphere.I hope the will to do so is equally available, but I doubt it. That's why we showed a lot of attention to this matter in the design of the eco-anarchic society where everyhting is in balance.

Who creates the amazing graphical part of your work ? Wonderful, no comments, bravo !

In the beginning I put a lot of energy into it myself, but a few years ago we founded the side -organization BILDGRUPPE M.O. and the people working for it now do all the artworks. Many thanks by the way to Leen Ruyters, Tom Muller, Christof Janssen and Geert Hellinx.

How often are you playing live ? I know only about your performance in Deadly Actions 4 Festival ( Lille, France ) and...hmm, probably you were also on Musique Ultime festival in France or am I wrong, sorry ? Why is there so little information about Militia's activities in the media after such fundamental albums being released ?

Well, we don't know anything about the Musique Ultime festival but recently we played in England
( London and Leeds ) and at the Clapo-Int Festival in France ( Amiens ).
We hope to play more but we don't get the chance that often. I don't know what the reason of this might be, listening to the comments of both organizers and the audience people say that our live concerts are just great. We do a lot of effort to bring a nice show, using film and fireworks on stage as well, but mainly by just playing the best we can and showing the audience that we really all stand behind our music and that our intentions are positive.
I guess we didn't do enough promotion and public relations regarding the band's live performances and were too concentrated on the studio activities uptill now, the forthcoming book and our political views and so on. Compared to bands like Inade or Con-Dom, Death in June and others we do play a lot less often, that's right.
I noticed also that on all occasions we were invited to play, we were the only live performing percussion band, the other bands were mainly electronic. Maybe that's a reason, perhaps most people in the industrial scene just like to see more of this type of music and don't like life percussion that much ? Anyway there are maybe a hundred or more electronic industrial bands, and to my knowledge ( which is incomplete regarding the number of bands and the different styles in the scene, sorry ) I guess we're about the only life percussion band with six people involved after Test Department stopped their activities. We're also a six member band with lots of equipment on stage, that might sometimes also be the problem, also financially because we've got to rent a van to transport all of this and use an additional car to transport the guys from the band.We charge the money for hiring the van and for the fuel, and this can be high costs when driving far. Most other bands are just one person or maybe two or three and only carrying desktop, tapes and perhaps one or two synthesizers, they are more mobile so to speak. Getting Militia in your concert hall is quite an organization and can be rather expensive. But please, consider the pro's and just invite us to play, we just love it !
And regarding our presence in the media, well I feel that we've done quite some interviews in various magazines recently, and people send me copies of comments and reviews being published on a regular bases, and there is a bit of information to be found about Militia on the internet as well.
But as I said before, we're planning to make our own website in a month or two.

Do you get any support from the Belgian industrial scene, and at last could you also characterize a local electro-industrial scene and such a scene in Europe ? What's the meaning for you of this long friendship with Con-Dom ?

I really don't now much about the industrial scene, because I don't like much of the music that's been playing there. In Belgium we've had The Klinik, but I don't know if they still exist. There is Suicide Commando and Dive but I've never listen to their music, I guess it's all about body electronic music . I liked Club Moral, but their musical activities seem to have stopped, I know that they are still active in other branches of the arts, video and so on.
As for the European industrial scene, well, mostly I have to do my very best not to laugh when I see these uniformed guys "performing": stupidly dressed up like neo-nazi's or in camouflage, with silly haircuts, often decorated with foolish runes, the high boots, the undefinable shouting in the microphone and the omni present distorted laptop, all so meaningless and stupid. I get pretty fed up with that kind of shit but unfortunately we cannot often avoid being together on the playlist of the same concerts, so it's always a long wait for us before they finish their debile and boring act. But I do like the action and power coming from Con-Dom, and I'm glad Mike and I get along very well. At least he isn't playing around with neo-nazi outlooks and ideas, he's OK, left wing, and a "green boy", involved in environmental activities and a nice family father as well. We quite often have contact and it's always nice to meet him. I would love very much to play on the same concert with him, we allready did so once or twice in the past. And we've worked together on music projects, hopefully we'll continue doing so.

What do you think about such ideas as Prigozhin' " the order from chaos" and did you use this theory in the basis of your own ? And where is for you any connection between this and Bakunin's words:"the pleasure of destruction is the creating pleasure" ?


Prigozhin' says that order comes from chaos, which is surrounding it. The energy needed to create "areas" of order ( structure ) is being distracted from the chaotic environment or space around it. To his mind this explains the presence of order in the universe, which itself is chaotic ( in chaotic movement ). Relating his ideas to the eco-anarchic social views, we see a common ground: the natural environment is in a constant development, it is dynamic and follows it's own rules and order if you like. But because we cannot control this natural order, we call it disorder or chaos. That makes it easier to convince others that we have the right and obligation even to get it under control, in other words, to exploit nature and use it, tame it and alter it accordingly to our needs.
This happens because we refuse to see the whole: there is one universe in constant development and evolution. There is no such thing as natural chaos, nature just cannot be tamed and follows its own directions guided by its own forces. It's a dynamic and constantly evolving structure. Chaos would mean that there is no reason for this change and evolution, that it happens without a purpose, but it doesn't, it evolves in order to stay present and to grow.
Regarding social live and the structure of human communities, we see the same things happening: people are evolving and our society is dynamic, growing and changing. For some this is threathening, because they think that only a society that can be fully controlled and lead by maintaining strict order and rules is the only one that can ensure safety and comfort to us all. But as soon as one starts to control the masses, you see the increase of crimes, you get things like greed, hate, racism and so on. Religion, property, power ... these are all means to enable such a control, by deviding the people into catagories like rich and poor, black and white, men and women, christian or muslim....
So, in order to create a real save world and a balanced society in a healthy and clean natural environment, you've got to incorporate the element of "chaos", meaning here the possibility of change, evolution and dynamic flexibility. We believe that the instinctive solidarity and the longing for safety and peace will eventually lead to the installation of a society that isn't ruled any longer by any form of government, but is build upon the element of discussion and mutual respect, both for men and nature. So we don't like the word chaos to be used in this contence, but we would like to replace it by "natural dynamism". Chaos is what you get when people are being pulled around, exploited, threathened and forced into hating each other, resulting into racial behaviour, greed and so on. Chaos is the mental condition of people living in a state of fear.Natural dynamism is what you get when people are free, in harmony and living in a balanced borderless community without rulers, surrounded by a beautifull and unspoiled nature.
In order to create such a balanced eco-anarchic system, you've got to destroy the conventional social system before it destroys our lives, our environment and eventually our planet. Bakunin and others said the same thing, our ideas are not that new.

Your social model is religionless, but as you can see each organization has a conjunctive system of ideas, habits, values and beliefs, it's a priori, call it a religion or something else. Moreover, as you know the human being is first of all homo believing, we always need something that we can trust and believe in, and that's what religion consequently represents. Solidarity and harmony are based on it. What is your opinion regarding this?

Indeed, the eco-anarchic social system is a atheistic one, here there is no place for religion or belief in higher supernatural powers. There can be a form of spirituality though, meaning the recognition of beauty and harmony in the natural environment and discovering the positive potentials of interhuman solidarity and enjoying all of this. But we must strongly oppose any form of belief in abstract and devine powers as we find them in all religions and spiritual god-beliefs. Let me explain why.
In order to get control over the masses, the rulers - and this goes back into far and distant past - appealed to higher powers ( gods ) they invented themselves to construct a legitimate framework for their power. Noone dared to question the power and the position of the rulers, because they claimed that the gods themselves supported the ruler's position with undeniable and unquestionable consent. He who dared questioning or oppose the ruler's position, faced with punishment, both in the real life
( imprisonment, torture, death penalty ) and in the hereafter ( condemned to a further life of everlasting misery in hell ).
Other fact is that a devided group can be better controlled than a united one. There are so many different kinds of belief, all with different rules and laws: they form a perfect instrument to gain more power, because you can brainwash your own people easily in making them believe that their religion is better than the religion of another group of people, we are right and they are heretics, you know, and so we've got to attack them and conquer them and force them to believe in the same god(s) as we do or die. Nearly all wars had ( and still have ) a religious background. Religion only creates a false feeling of solidarity. Real solidarity means that you're willing to support and help all others, regardless opinion or belief. Religion has done nothing less but devide people and making them hate those who are members of a different religious group. Moreover, religion was founded upon fear for the unknown, for death. It gives a false feeling of safety, but in the same time it keeps everyone and everything well under control with dictatorial rules. In order to feel free and evolve and mentally grow and develop ourselves, we must cast out this bloody stain upon human history without hesitation.

Then you say that "it's a borderless society... a vegetarian one as well, because we respect all life forms: it is impossible to provide hughe numbers of people with meat without torturing and abusing the animals involved".But did you forget about the selfish human nature which has been underlined even by such philosophers as Hobbes, Grozi, Lock ?
What's your opinion of the self-defending society, which uses other life forms ( animals ) for food and thus insures human life ? What about the natural law and the idea of selection, which was confirmed by the historical line, both in the human and animal world ? And by the way, humans are the only beings that can kill and eat the similar ones which proves that we must eat others to stay alive ?

As soon as we stop regarding men to be the centre of the universe - image provided by the Bible ! - and evolve from an EGO-centric world into an ECO-centric one, we will discover our real place in the whole: it's beside the animals and not above. When small groups of people, e.g. the American Indians hunted for buffalo, they killed just as much animals as they needed to stay alive and they also used every bit of the animal, to make tools or housing or whatever.
But now there are so many people that this system of ecologically save behaviour cannot supply us with meat any longer. So we had to "industrialize" the supplying and processing of meat. This leads to hughe concentration camps where cattle is being kept prisonner for life, the use of chemicals in the food, hormones and drugs, all to get as much profit as possible, regardless the conditions and the pain and misery the animals must endure, regardless the impact upon our own health.
As soon as the animals get the same rights as people - and MILITIA stands for this, we support every animal liberation action group where possible, including the Animal Liberation Front - it is the definitive end of massive slaughter and murder. We believe that "everything is one", the other, including the animal, is nothing less but another form of yourself. We can stay alive - and more, we can live very healthy - by not eating meat but replacing it by vegetarian products, containing all elements, minerals and vitamins we need. Regarding the condition of the meat that is being produced and in that the end lands on our dinner plate, a diet without meat would be a lot healthier. Belgium is one of those countries that have dealt with a lot of scandals regarding food: hormones and growth stimulators, animal deseases, poisoned meat, the use of dangerous chemicals and additives in the food chain etc. It has made people furious and an increasing number of people have started eating less meat or changed it for a vegetarian way of life. But the forces of the meat processing industry are strong and they are specialized in covering up scandals like that. They have even murdered a health inspector ( his name was Willy Vanoppen ) while on duty and at the point of revealing a great conspiracy by the meat maffia.
Hobbes and Grozi were right calling the human race selfish, but this doesn't mean we must not do something about it. A new perspective can be supplied by the eco-anarchic philosophy. Through our music and statements we try to re-educate the people and revealing the dirty activities of the meat processing industry and promoting the vegetarian way of life is one of our goals.

Could you explain what anarchy means ? And how natural urge for solidarity and harmony can be connected with it ? So, what is harmony for you ? I ask you this because the history of the soviet union broke down such positions. Every anarchy can exist and develop, be prolific only in fertile soil...

In short, anarchy comes from the Greec and means "without authority". We believe in an alternative society where all decisions are made by the people themselves and made in full harmony with nature as a full partner, accordingly to the eco-anarchic social views.
In order to achieve this kind of social structure, the conventional society has to be destructed starting at the top and progressing downwards. As soon as the old society has vanished, a firtile and open social field awaits the installation of grass-roots organizations, e.g. small communities, borderless societies, being guided by representatives of the inhabitans, but under constant review and open for discussion and for a limited period of time. They are organized starting from the basis and horizontally structured. Global solidarity and mutual respect are the foundations of this new social system. There is no money but in some cases the people can use a form of securities. Economy is based upon barter, there is eco-industry and the use of natural sources and energy, bio-agriculture... The Natural Control Board represents Nature in this social whole and is responsible for avoiding pollution or exploitation of the environment.
A more complete picture of this eco-anarchic society will be found in the forthcoming book "The Eco-Anarchic Manifesto". It would lead too far to explain every detail now in this interview, but I hope you'll read the Manifesto.

Vivere militare est, life is a death, and anarchy is the agony of blood and thought, it's a half wit polonaise where there is no place for solidarity...

...says the leading regime and thus providing the masses with false information about the real anarchic philosophy and representing their capitalist regime as being the best of all possible worlds. Don't you read the newspapers or watch the news, don't you see what's happening out there on a daily basis ?
The real thing is that our own modern society is in decay and the rulers are doing everything possible to hide this from us. They fear every alternative, look what they say about not eating meat, or see how they hinder the evolution of clean technologies and the use of natural energy, how they keep the people devided in catagories, how they stand towards the poor and the hungry, so it's obvious that they try to sabotage every attempt to even design an alternative society. Thoughts like ours are not allowed because endangering their secure life, their property and their wealth. In order to defend it they have created a hughe and powerfull military force and installed fascist police forces and they are telling lies about the eco-anarchists and present them as a gang of provocateurs and terrorists.
I hope that Militia have shown another picture and revealed the real nature of eco-anarchists and their views, which are basically good, because based upon global solidarity and respect, in harmony with nature and open for all, based upon freedom and the will to care.

"Only sheep need a leader !"

Igor Vaganov vs Frank Gorissen